No question any more. For a while.
We will concentrate our efforts on a different kind of learning exercises and I will try to cover them here also. The conclusion post will be here also after I have spoken to each of them individually.
The most interesting question came from one of the testers and needs to be discussed.
"What good is discussing about theories we cannot use in practise?"
Meaning, that most of our question and discussions have been on abstract level and are therefore not easily applicable in practise. And as we are involved with embedded software, there are some testing techniques we cannot use and so on. This needs further discussion.
Thursday, October 1, 2009
End of Round Eight
Why?
To explain your previous decisions.
My view.
Every once-in-a-while you have to explain something you did a while back. It might be a test plan you did or error you set as solved. How easy that would be to explain your actions from 2 weeks ago? 2 months ago? And if new information has emerged about the situation, what then? It is rather difficult to accept that your decision was wrong or inaccurate.
The explanation or reasoning must not look like babbling or looking-for-excuses, it must show the facts you were using and thought-process around that. And preferably a note for the future how to avoid problems from now on.
The following are the answeres I received:
Tester 1:
a) Testing has inference, which consists comparison of new to old results. - For example, when testing a bug fix. We are also verifying whether and how the behavior has changed compared to the previous results.
b) Intuition is a good beginning, but a inadequate conclusion. - Although it is grammatically incorrect, it means that when you have an intuition of something then it is a good start for doing it, because then you know where to start. But it is not enough for conclusion.
c) Without knowledge testing is an ignorance-based process. - You don't know how to test something if you have no knowledge of testing and the product.
d) You're not who's fool, if someone says you're a fool. - It's like that thing with shovel and a hole.
Tester 2:
a) Testing using inference, is the comparison of expectations to the results.
Reliable conclusions are based on accurate test results & comparison of your own expectations to the results.
b) Intuition is a fertile beginning for a good conclusion.
Sometimes the answers are not quite there. You need some intuition to get to the right track.
c) Releasing without testing is for ignorance-based organizations.
Being too self-confident can blow up in your face. The bigger they are, the higher they fall!
d) You're not a fool, if you think you're a fool. Socrates: "The more you know, the more you know you dont know". Knowing about not knowing something is more valuable than not knowing that you dont know something.
Tester 3:
a) If I look at my sentence now - then if I remove word "inference", then the sentence makes sense.
b) "Natural beginning -> advising definite conclusion" - if the starting presumptions are good enough, then the results are more accurate.
c) Beer plus testing - it can`t give objective results, so it can`t be real testing - so it is something else. For example testers holiday.
d) Admitting that something is wrong is the first step for solution. Even Murdock from the A-Team admitted that he was crazy.
Tester 4:
a) Testing and inference, essential for comparison of estimated to actual results. -
I picked and for the first cap because i tried to show that both, inference and testing are parts of the process. Testing as an active process and inference as a result. Both must be done to compare estimated and actual results which were my easy two picks for this sentence.
b) Intuition is a path beginning, report a test conclusion. -
Picked path for the first cap because there are numerous times when you intuition tells you what to test. Report and test were used on other caps because report follows and concludes every test session.
c) Unfocusing on testing is causing ignorance-based risks. -
The word combination ignorance-based do go hand in hand in many cases. The other caps were filled to make this sentence seem to make some sence.
d) You're a double fool, if dumbass thinks you're a fool. -
There is always a need for a bit of humour and populism. The sentence included words that are rather easy to use for generating something that others may like. Tested the possibility for populism in our small group, as voting showed, i failed.
Tester 5:
a) Testing is inference, it is comparison of expected to actual results.
You have to inference logically what could happen if you do something and then compare the results to what you expected.
b) Intuition is a good beginning, logic a good conclusion.
It is always good to follow your intuition, but you can not base your
conclusions on it. You need facts/proofs for that and logic is a good way to get them.
c) Without specifications testing is like ignorance-based wandering.
Good spec is a base for testing. I do not only mean by spec the requirements but
also specs how to test and what to test. If you do not have those its is just wandering.
d) You're considered a fool, if you think you're a fool.
If you think yourself as a fool, you will act accordingly subconsciously. Thus making
yourself seen as a fool.
Tester 6:
a) Testing results inference, obtained by comparison of reference to actual results.
- It’s clever to compare different situations and results to find commonality and differences. It’s much easier to operate in known environment.
b) Intuition is a simple beginning, resulting a complicated conclusion.
– Intuition is a part of all decisions.
c) Necessity of testing is avoiding ignorance-based errors.
– You shouldn’t make mistakes because you are just lazy or didn’t check twice.
d) You're not that fool, if you think you're a fool.
– It’s important to acknowledge your soft spots.
Tester 7:
a) Testing logical inference, is practical comparison of conclusions to actual results.
As inferences can be verified only by verifying actual results.
b) Intuition is a correct beginning, after a wrong conclusion.
As you can act correctly by intuition even if you don't have enough information to make correct conclusions.
c) Black box testing is not ignorance-based testing.
Testing without knowing inner structure of test object don't mean that you can test it without having enough information about it's expected behavior.
d) You're not a fool, if you think you're a fool.
Only person who accepts his fallibility, can reach to correct conclusions about himself.
Tester 8:
Testing for inference, aim is comparison of reference to actual results - One main aim in testing is to get an overview of tested product and it is achieved by comparing its functioning and behavior with a reference, manual or even own logic.
Intuition is a testing-process beginning, error-report a successful conclusion - Every testing-process should start with idea or aim and should end with conclusion (and with error-reports when bugs are found).
Despite theories, testing is totally ignorance-based activity - Testing theories may be followed and great ideas may be used, but tester himself with his activities will determinate the efficiency of his work.
You're testing as fool, if work-results states you're a fool - Different testing approaches should be used with different products and systems. Also there are not a complex system without a flaw or even minor error. Tester work-results are reflecting his ability to use his knowledge in testing-process.
To explain your previous decisions.
My view.
Every once-in-a-while you have to explain something you did a while back. It might be a test plan you did or error you set as solved. How easy that would be to explain your actions from 2 weeks ago? 2 months ago? And if new information has emerged about the situation, what then? It is rather difficult to accept that your decision was wrong or inaccurate.
The explanation or reasoning must not look like babbling or looking-for-excuses, it must show the facts you were using and thought-process around that. And preferably a note for the future how to avoid problems from now on.
The following are the answeres I received:
Tester 1:
a) Testing has inference, which consists comparison of new to old results. - For example, when testing a bug fix. We are also verifying whether and how the behavior has changed compared to the previous results.
b) Intuition is a good beginning, but a inadequate conclusion. - Although it is grammatically incorrect, it means that when you have an intuition of something then it is a good start for doing it, because then you know where to start. But it is not enough for conclusion.
c) Without knowledge testing is an ignorance-based process. - You don't know how to test something if you have no knowledge of testing and the product.
d) You're not who's fool, if someone says you're a fool. - It's like that thing with shovel and a hole.
Tester 2:
a) Testing using inference, is the comparison of expectations to the results.
Reliable conclusions are based on accurate test results & comparison of your own expectations to the results.
b) Intuition is a fertile beginning for a good conclusion.
Sometimes the answers are not quite there. You need some intuition to get to the right track.
c) Releasing without testing is for ignorance-based organizations.
Being too self-confident can blow up in your face. The bigger they are, the higher they fall!
d) You're not a fool, if you think you're a fool. Socrates: "The more you know, the more you know you dont know". Knowing about not knowing something is more valuable than not knowing that you dont know something.
Tester 3:
a) If I look at my sentence now - then if I remove word "inference", then the sentence makes sense.
b) "Natural beginning -> advising definite conclusion" - if the starting presumptions are good enough, then the results are more accurate.
c) Beer plus testing - it can`t give objective results, so it can`t be real testing - so it is something else. For example testers holiday.
d) Admitting that something is wrong is the first step for solution. Even Murdock from the A-Team admitted that he was crazy.
Tester 4:
a) Testing and inference, essential for comparison of estimated to actual results. -
I picked and for the first cap because i tried to show that both, inference and testing are parts of the process. Testing as an active process and inference as a result. Both must be done to compare estimated and actual results which were my easy two picks for this sentence.
b) Intuition is a path beginning, report a test conclusion. -
Picked path for the first cap because there are numerous times when you intuition tells you what to test. Report and test were used on other caps because report follows and concludes every test session.
c) Unfocusing on testing is causing ignorance-based risks. -
The word combination ignorance-based do go hand in hand in many cases. The other caps were filled to make this sentence seem to make some sence.
d) You're a double fool, if dumbass thinks you're a fool. -
There is always a need for a bit of humour and populism. The sentence included words that are rather easy to use for generating something that others may like. Tested the possibility for populism in our small group, as voting showed, i failed.
Tester 5:
a) Testing is inference, it is comparison of expected to actual results.
You have to inference logically what could happen if you do something and then compare the results to what you expected.
b) Intuition is a good beginning, logic a good conclusion.
It is always good to follow your intuition, but you can not base your
conclusions on it. You need facts/proofs for that and logic is a good way to get them.
c) Without specifications testing is like ignorance-based wandering.
Good spec is a base for testing. I do not only mean by spec the requirements but
also specs how to test and what to test. If you do not have those its is just wandering.
d) You're considered a fool, if you think you're a fool.
If you think yourself as a fool, you will act accordingly subconsciously. Thus making
yourself seen as a fool.
Tester 6:
a) Testing results inference, obtained by comparison of reference to actual results.
- It’s clever to compare different situations and results to find commonality and differences. It’s much easier to operate in known environment.
b) Intuition is a simple beginning, resulting a complicated conclusion.
– Intuition is a part of all decisions.
c) Necessity of testing is avoiding ignorance-based errors.
– You shouldn’t make mistakes because you are just lazy or didn’t check twice.
d) You're not that fool, if you think you're a fool.
– It’s important to acknowledge your soft spots.
Tester 7:
a) Testing logical inference, is practical comparison of conclusions to actual results.
As inferences can be verified only by verifying actual results.
b) Intuition is a correct beginning, after a wrong conclusion.
As you can act correctly by intuition even if you don't have enough information to make correct conclusions.
c) Black box testing is not ignorance-based testing.
Testing without knowing inner structure of test object don't mean that you can test it without having enough information about it's expected behavior.
d) You're not a fool, if you think you're a fool.
Only person who accepts his fallibility, can reach to correct conclusions about himself.
Tester 8:
Testing for inference, aim is comparison of reference to actual results - One main aim in testing is to get an overview of tested product and it is achieved by comparing its functioning and behavior with a reference, manual or even own logic.
Intuition is a testing-process beginning, error-report a successful conclusion - Every testing-process should start with idea or aim and should end with conclusion (and with error-reports when bugs are found).
Despite theories, testing is totally ignorance-based activity - Testing theories may be followed and great ideas may be used, but tester himself with his activities will determinate the efficiency of his work.
You're testing as fool, if work-results states you're a fool - Different testing approaches should be used with different products and systems. Also there are not a complex system without a flaw or even minor error. Tester work-results are reflecting his ability to use his knowledge in testing-process.
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